What is going on with the incorporation of the nde?

Is anyone else concerned over the incorporation into Christianity?

To me, it seems that the nde is a threat and thus there are apologists on the internet in particular that are trying to make it look like Christianity is what the nde is all about.

It may be that they realize that so many are losing interest in religion and many are beginning to question. So, if they make it look like our experiences enforce their religion then their religion is the right one and people will begin to come back?

Or, maybe it's just the recents events of these forums, well all three actually (Iands, Nderf and Near death) that have been taken over by such beliefs, no questioning permitted.

My thoughts on this and they are only mine.

There is Christianity (based on the 4 gospels and Jesus's sayings only)
and there is christianity based on all the rest
(what the churches and most followers push)

If one strips away the OT, everything from acts on, and add in books like the Gospel of Thomas,
then the core of what is attributed to Jesus sounds a lot like what a lot of NDErs say.
And the reason I say that is that if one ignores the language of the time
(his box of crayolas ) then the messages is similar.

But mainstream churches/christianity is all about control, and bringing in money, of course.
So they're not interested in an message(s) that NDErs bring back.

Hell, if Jesus walked into any modern church and spoke the way he was reported to have done
they would kick his ass out in a heartbeat and bar the doors.

Any ideas for the names of the sub-forums? If we are going to let fundies on here I don't think they will tolerate the name "Religious house of Horrors" Any ideas?

Admin wrote:Any ideas for the names of the sub-forums? If we are going to let fundies on here I don't think they will tolerate the name "Religious house of Horrors" Any ideas?

Just call it "religion" and anytime someone wants to pull out the bible quotes point them to it.

What about "Religious Challenge" a board for challenge to and from the religious.

We come back from these experiences and we assume that someone knows something about them, but really, there's no one that knows anything about these experiences. We attempt to explore different religions and we end up challenging and finding ourselves in a minority of one, all alone, feeling like there's no one on this planet that realizes what happened to us except us.

We wish for that future time when these experiences will be common and we have a grasp of an explanation, with no use for gap filling. Someone that can say with certainty, "this is what happened, see the fields of connection, we now know that we are infinite".

yes, religious challenge, a forum with the challenge of incorporating religious teaching into the NDE. Arguments for and against the NDE as a religious phenomenon welcome.

there is two side to the stories , without religion or american christianity , there wouldn´t be so much spot light on NDE ..
that the christianity choose to OWN nde cause of that reasoning ,
Isn´t enterily just or vindicated , but sadly it is a logical statement .

Cause without the Christianity(money and contact in this case) highlighting NDE , we would all be declared insane and told to STFU .
So yes I do understand why the christianity is attacking NDE atheist or reincarnation theorie , cause they think they made NDE .
Sadly NDE was already there will always be there .
So just cause they put major contacts and funds into bringing out NDE to the public , means sadly in this society , they control what is going out on the medium or not going out on the media .

So basicaly for majority of the NDEer who do not care to play into there fascade , means simply put no money or no interest shown towards your NDE .
Those who want there support and money and other things , means altering your stories to fit angels gods and heavenly paradise into the NDE .
Simple as that.

what this forum should tolerate is both points of view.
You cannot understand one problem , without having tought about that problem .
NDE does transend religion time and any other bounderies .
Sadly doesn´t mean people are ready to accept and forgo those bounderies.

Yup, there's two sides to stories if two are involved.

This sort of reminds me of when people say: "I believe in aliens", when in fact they should perhaps say: "I believe there is other intelligent life". One phrase sounds sort of nutty while the other many scientists accept perhaps due to the Drake equation, which is actually an equation for extraterrestrials, but for some reason isn't considered amongst the nutty.

So, when someone says: "I believe in a god", it sounds a little nutty to some in sciences because for one, it's a claim to some sort of anthromorphic humanoid character running the show, when in fact it appears that these are systems. If instead these same people said: "I believe there is intelligence beyond our current comprehension", well, that may be pondered by scientists and taken into considerations.

When nders make claims that they met a god or the god or Jesus or whatever other entity of their choice, it sounds nutty because history has shown us that it in probability is very nutty, just as are space Aliens with human overlays.

We're not about to be taken seriously if we continue to endorse religions, as they will eventually fall to logic. Our technological advancements are on an unprecedented exponential curve, and soon this species will indeed wake up.

Admin wrote:Any ideas for the names of the sub-forums? If we are going to let fundies on here I don't think they will tolerate the name "Religious house of Horrors" Any ideas?

Well, This girl is ordained as a minister.  I do not have a home church.  Today's churches are ate up with big-shot-isms, "clicks", money hungry individuals, all about the production line and putting the pastor on a pedestal.  I have walked in and walked back out of every single one shaking my head.  What happened?

Back in the early 80's, there was a Pastor near where I lived that had a tiny storefront chapel.  He worked a different job full time.  He pastored in the evenings and on the weekends. He refused to take money.  He would give the building's electric/water/gas account numbers if asked. So if you wanted to donate, that's the only way you could, by paying a portion or a total bill.  He never asked it, never mentioned it and it was so clear he was only in it for helping people in need.  

I had a NDE at 4 1/2 years of age.  I wasn't raised in a house where we went to church.  I wasn't taught "Jesus loves the little children."  I was only told of an angry God who was mad at me for every little wrong thing I did and that I was going to burn in a place called hell for being bad.  There was never any talk of God's love or compassion.  

After my NDE, I was sooooooo very confused. As I said, I was 4 1/2, and I had just recently had a tonscilectomy and my adenoids removed.  Unknown to me or my mother, the area where they were removed didn't heal. I literally bled to death down the back of my throat. By the time we realized I was bleeding down the back of my throat, nearly a week after the opperation, I had to be rushed to the hospital. I was lethargic and then started having convulsions. The hospital staff laid me on the opperating table and rushed around to hook up the monitors on me.

I heard the faint beeps of the monitors. I was too tired to be scared. I just laid there and looking straight up at the ceiling. I saw dots on the ceiling tiles and just watched them. I was too tired to struggle. Suddenly, the beeps on the monitors faded and were gone, and a louder steady beep came. I felt the cold metal of the table under my back, but the table was rising up towards the ceiling. I didn't understand what was going on, but I could see the dots on the ceiling get closer and closer, then I realized as I saw that they were not dots at all, but were holes in the ceiling tiles instead of dots. I thought to myself, in a 4 1/2 yr old mind, "I'm going to hit my head on the ceiling." Suddenly I was WHOOSHED through the ceiling and was now standing on something that felt like it was solid and I could see though it like glass.  The ceiling was gone and no longer existed to me. I could see with a vision that was better than my Earthly vision. I could hear far better too.

I heard the doctors and nurses as they rushed around, and I heard someone yell out, "We're loosing her!!"

I thought to myself, "Why are they saying they are loosing me? Can't they see me? I'm right there!" So somehow I knew it was my body still there laying on the opperating table.

There was a being standing next to me on my right.  He was so radiating love and warmth coming from him.  It was unlike the feeling of love here on Earth. It was similar to being in someone's arms you deeply love- feeling warm, protected, happy and then multiply that times 1,000.  His love was radiating out and filling me with that same love. (I felt that I still had a body, and since I could see and hear, apparently I did.)

Some people say what we see and hear is only because the brain has not died yet since you are in an NDE, but, if that's true, why could I see downward and see my body laying there?  Why was I able to see & hear the doctors and nurses from a view of looking downward over the top of their heads and not just only see upwards from the operating table?

Anyway, the Being next to me, who I think was either Jesus or a representative from Him, was radiating this wonderful love and warmth which merged with me and I was at complete bliss and peace. I felt so much love, I did not want to leave. I wanted to stay there. (I had been a very shy child, but yet here, I was with someone who I felt so much love & peace with that I wanted to stay.)  We spoke to each other through telepathy, and we could hear perfectly.  

The doctors revived me and I was returned. That has been over 51 years ago and I've never fogotten it. From the time that happened, I began to experience psychic phenomena. I began to have dejavu, telepathy, premonition dreams, clairvoyance, and more.  

From the time  I was 18 - 25, I went on a spiritual quest.  I wanted to find out who it was I had met in that NDE.  He didn't match the God that wanted to throw me in Hell because I argued with my siblings.  He didn't match the God that wanted me to burn because I wasn't perfect.  I began to read everything I could get my hands on about religion, paranormal, the occult and everything else.  I studied Wicca, Jainism, Hindu, Buddha, dark sides of Judaism that conjured up demons, the many many vast types of Christianity, read the Bible more than 7 times, read the Koran (once was enough), and continued searching. The closest I could get to what I had experienced was bits and pieces of what I read in the Bible.

At 25, I had a second NDE.  I was drinking & drugging and had lived my life on the edge, having no fear of death.  During one of my drinking and drugging times, I nearly caused the death of someone very close to me.  An extremely heavy object fell on top of me and the air was being crushed out of my lungs.  I couldn't breathe.  As I died again, this time, I found myself in a place of complete and absolute darkness.  The sounds were eerie, frightening, and I was in excruciating pain. I wasn't standing, I was laying on what felt like concrete flooring, face down. There was no fire, no sounds of burning people or souls, but I felt as though I was dying again there. I began to say in my mind, "I believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God."  I repeated that over and over in my mind.  I felt like I was being helped off the floor by people standing on the left and the right of me. They helped me to a staircase and then people who lined the staircase on the left and the right side of me, helped me up the flight of stairs. At the top of the steps, I bumped my head on something solid, like a ceiling of sorts, and they moved me over a bit. Suddenly I was WHOOSHED through a hole and I was back on Earth and out of the darkness, as someone was lifting the heavy object off of me.  The other person lived as well.  

I spent the next 17 years continuing to research spirituality, finally coming to terms with being an Alcoholic/Addict and stopped drinking & drugging. Believe me, it didn't happen instantly.

The next 12 years, bringing me up to the current time, have been searching for what I believe in, which doesn't seem to exist in a religious format or theory, and the best I can get is belief in paranormal activity and in a loving God who doesn't seem to fit into the box most people want to put Him in.   I don't believe the person who I met in the first NDE was God.  It could have been, but I think it was who they call Yeshua/Jesus or an Angel sent by God or Jesus.   I don't believe in a fire burning hell.  I do obviously now believe in a place of darkness, but I also believe it doesn't have to be a permanent residence.   Why did I go there?  I don't know.  Could it have been because I blacked out from lack of air?  Could it have been because I was drinking & drugging?  Could it have been because I nearly also caused someone else's demise?  I don't know.

As for the topic of if someone who is a fundie accept Religious house of horrors?  Well, I don't know.  I can't put God in a box and to see what's happening all over the world in the name of religion IS a horror.  

Thanks for letting me share.

Thank you for sharing, Returned.

We no longer use this forum because the administrator (Lucas) died a few years ago.  I don't have access to the admin. functions, and I'm not sure if anyone else does.

We started a new forum at   http://deathexperience.forumotion.com/forum  but it's a bit of a mess...and it needs some help in regard to its development (would love to have you join us there!).

I can relate to your search following your ndes.  I did the same thing for many years.  I too have read the bible and quran...however, they appear to support atheism in my opinion, as the contents are easily debated with simple logic and reasoning.  I've debated them for years.  In actuality, Jesus most likely was either a small cult leader or he in fact never existed.  There are two historians that are sited as support for his existence (Josephus and Tacitus), however, both were born (BORN) several years after (AFTER) Jesus died.  And both mentions (Tacitus mentions christians and Josephus mention Christ) are considered fraudulant.  Josephus was Jewish and he mentions "The Christ" (Jews do not consider Jesus as the messiah...as they are still waiting for Immanuel).  Also...look up Mithra and Jesus...or the many other christ/messiah like gods such as Horus, Krishna, Buddah and so forth.  You may also want to look up "Asherah" (she was Yaweh's wife).  These are made up stories that humans used to fill in the gaps of ignorance...but unfortunately it kept us ignorant.

If we as nders continue to hold on or support these myths, in my opinion the nde will be considered the results of an ignorant brain creating its own stories...and most unfortunately...it too will die.

I should also had mentioned that there were close to 50 historians in that region during the time of Jesus's existence...and not one of them reported anything about him at all.  Jesus was said to be the descendant of King David.  Joseph was said to be a descendant of King David.  That would make Jesus the son of Joseph and not of a god.  Also, Jewish historians kept records of their descendants.  That's basically what the Torah (Old Testament) is...a record of the deeds of some their descendants.  But the Torah isn't considered accurate by some scholars.

It gets really interesting when you research such beliefs as that of the Aztecs...in which you see that humans were required to put their gods above everything and everyone.  Such that they sacrificed their own children on altars.  Only a few years ago an archeological site was found in which over sixty little ones were found with their hearts cut out apparently while they were alive.  In the bible...Abraham is required to kill his son.  He doesn't go through with it...but he was willing to do it in order to prove his devotion.  This is a very dangerous mindset to have as we are social creatures in which our very survivals are based on our ability to get along.  We're the only apes that can sit for hours amongst one another without bothering anyone else.  It's our brains' abilities that diversify us...but why?  Perhaps the searching to find answers is a big part of the reason?

Anyway...hope to see you on the other forum.