For those that may have missed the special

a long read, but quite an interesting article on James Randi.

Randi is an illusionist, not a scientist, and has done a rather good job a keeping up the illusion of the million dollar challenge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation

I don't think that anyone thought that James Randi is a "scientist"? I can remember back to his magic performances and he was actually quite amazing. Magicians seem to be on average the most critical of the liars that claim to be doing "real" magic. Magicians or Illusionists can be pretty good at giving suggestions as hypnotists are known to do. I prefer when they're honest and tell the public that it's a trick.

Have you ever heard to the p-21 and p-41 gene? The human body can regenerate even limbs if these genes didn't exist. But if they didn't then stuff like cancerous cells could generate with little to zero control. So, the body has the capability to fix itself, it's just that it had to evolve to protect itself against other invaders and therefore left itself vulnerable in other areas.

You want to believe that girl cured you, well, that's your choice. I happen to not believe that she did anything except convince you that she did.

Oh and btw, James Randi's foundation "JREF" also gives out significant scholarships and finances legal protection for those that challenge the frauds.

Cloe wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi_Educational_Foundation
You want to believe that girl cured you, well, that's your choice. I happen to not believe that she did anything except convince you that she did.

You haven't answered the question Cloe:could you enlarge your thyroid gland and shrink it back down again in a matter of seconds WITHOUT getting into some sort of highly charged focused emotional state, perhaps while thinking about a football game? Try it and tell me if you are successful.

Cloe wrote:Oh and btw, James Randi's foundation "JREF" also gives out significant scholarships and finances legal protection for those that challenge the frauds.

And your point is? Did you read the article?

wayne wrote:It can be argued it is all placebo effect but that is simply a way of dismissing what is not understood and viewing with tunnel vision.

I agree with this statement. While the shaman may provide the person with something that is necessary for the person to heal themselves, I don't think you ever implied that the role of the shaman is to provide some sort of suggestion or to bring a person into hypnosis to heal themselves. There is definitely more to it than that. If that were the case anybody could call themselves a shaman if they are merely to provide suggestions. What role does Qi/ki play in shamanic healing, Wayne?

You have to believe that the person can heal you and it has to be agreed upon by your subconscious or it's a losing battle. The subconcious seems to control the body much more so then our awareness factor, and we are in a continuous battle amongst ourselves for the self that we identify as. So, yes, there is the power of suggestion and whether your subconscious is on board or not.

My teenage years were spent being raised by a stepfather that was one of last Kahunas in Hawaii, and they are known to manipulate the "mana" or the energy that connects all things. There's some events that many people have witnessed that can't be explained, but that doesn't mean that it can be explained by the manipulation of energy that connects all things, it only means that we can't yet explain it and we need to figure it out, and once we do, it may be likened to the electro/magnetic force or gravity or whatever, but certainly not to a human being making a living out of claiming that they have superpowers.

Cloe wrote:You have to believe that the person can heal you and it has to be agreed upon by your subconscious or it's a losing battle. The subconcious seems to control the body much more so then our awareness factor, and we are in a continuous battle amongst ourselves for the self that we identify as. So, yes, there is the power of suggestion and whether your subconscious is on board or not.

But subconscious beliefs take longer to program, don't they? I had scarcely been familiar with this type of healing a week when I tried it. Would that have been enough for the subconscious belief to be programmed? If it were to be attributed to subconscious belief it does not explain how it shrank an endocrine gland immediately, yet had no immediate effect on my hands which had no feeling in them, which was something I had been consciously expecting.

Cloe wrote:
There's some events that many people have witnessed that can't be explained, but that doesn't mean that it can be explained by the manipulation of energy that connects all things, it only means that we can't yet explain it and we need to figure it out, and once we do, it may be likened to the electro/magnetic force or gravity or whatever, but certainly not to a human being making a living out of claiming that they have superpowers.

But why does "mana" have to be some sort of super power? I would have classified it as something like electro magnetic force or gravity. It's part of nature, and would not classify it as a superpower. For example energy from the sun, we have learned how to work with it how to store it, how to power cities with it etc.

Some have learned how to work with mana just as scientists have learned to work with the sun and create solar panels. Anita's healing has no scientific explanation, but that doesn't mean it was supernatural or paranormal. It just happened according to the laws of nature that humans have not figured out yet or realize even exist. I'm sure Wayne does not believe he has superpowers, more skills,if anything.

From what I understand about hypnosis, the subconscious mind needs metaphors. You can't just tell it to get rid of an ailment, you have to create a story for it, like a stream giving oxygen to all the cells except these particular cells and so forth and so on.

I found out recently that I was giving myself high blood pressure and that I can in fact lower my blood pressure at will. The family physician monitored my heart rate as he listened to my heart as I went into meditation and he told me "You've just made me a believer!". He said that I can create a murmur and that it disappears the moment that my heart rate decreases. I've had a MRI and my heart is great, no murmurs.

When I do shamanic work with someone it is not important they believe, it is only important I believe. A case in point is one of my "terminally ill" cancer clients who John Hopkins gave 3 weeks to live. Her husband brought her to me in a last desperate act. She told me when she walked through the door she didn't believe that stuff. It has been three years now and she is still in remission.

Believe in what? Exactly what are we talking about?

My sister in law was given a few months, but she's now in remission. She didn't see a healer, just medical doctors.

The child that I brought to the iands conference here in San Antonio was given less then three months. His inoperable brain tumor was growing rapidly and putting so much pressure on his brain that he actually died three times. The Make a wish foundation had even granted him his wish to meet the famous paleontologist Robert Bakker, so what I'm saying here is that he was going to die soon permantly by the time of the conference. At the conference we had to take him outside to the pool so he could lie down for awhile and rest.

He decided that day and after several nders and I laid hands on him that he was going to live for awhile. I remember him distinctly telling me that he was going to wait until 1)His mother could handle his death 2) He graduated from High School 3) He fell in love. A couple days after his graduation he went to bed and didn't wake up. His mother had remarried, his girlfriend was left broken hearted.

He was only nine years old at that day at the conference and lived to 18 years of age. I asked not only his mother but his neurosurgeon how he died and there was no reason for death.

I should mention that after the conference his tumor kept growing, but he was adamant with his neurosurgeon that he was going to get better. His tumor disappeared around a month later, to the bafflement of his doctor.

As many of you know by now as I have spoken about him many times, Daniel was an atheist. We would talk for great lengths about our experiences and he was the reason that I first went public with my experience through the iands forum because he made me promise him that I would.

So, anyway, what is the belief in?

the belief is in the potential to consciously influence energy in such a way that manifests biological changes. The terminology used varies widely.

wayne wrote:the belief is in the potential to consciously influence energy in such a way that manifests biological changes. The terminology used varies widely.

And the thing is that energy is not very difficult to perceive, nor is it very difficult to manipulate, at least to tinker with. I have had all sort of experiences just playing with energy. Manipulating it in such a way to make cancer go into remission or shrink enlarged endocrine glands takes a bit more skill and expertise, though.

See, that's the thing though, we really don't know how it works, so there's a lot of people claiming that they can heal people when in fact they don't know how it works.

Assuming that our brains are quantum computers, then it stands to reason that they may use a process of entanglements in order to gain the information necessary to make such changes to their otherwise disruptive programs.

Perhaps it's the reason that we have to tell stories to our sub-conscious as it actually has no foundational language which to work from and therefore we have to substitude some sort of guideline.

So, healers seem to be story tellers attempting to direct the sub-conscious and thereby give it a sense of direction.


http://www.technologyreview.com/article/38290/

Admin wrote: And the thing is that energy is not very difficult to perceive, nor is it very difficult to manipulate, at least to tinker with. I have had all sort of experiences just playing with energy. Manipulating it in such a way to make cancer go into remission or shrink enlarged endocrine glands takes a bit more skill and expertise, though.

it does. "practice makes perfect" and to practice one must understand where to start, the basic instruction. that came from the intuitive sense awakened during my nde, that is one of the key reasons anthropologists have discovered most indiginous shamans become so as the result of a nde.

Wayne, What do you mean by "the basic instruction"?

Cloe wrote:Wayne, What do you mean by "the basic instruction"?

awareness we return with

Awareness of what?

Cloe wrote:Awareness of what?

what is

What would that be?

See, my mind moves toward the probabilities. As in, there's a lot of non-believers that have spontaneous remissions and then there are believers that actually die because of their deep beliefs (medical doctors have to allow the witch doctor into the room or else).

So, if we look at this in a sort of balanced arena of sorts, as no one so far seems capable of avoiding decoherence or decay, then are we really accomplishing anything of benefit?

If it's toward this species evolution, then doesn't it stand to reason that we should find out exactly how it works, or the only benefit is to delay the inevitable not conquer it. So we leave them nothing of lasting benefit and even stand the chance of degenerating them a step back toward superstitions?

does it really matter?

wayne wrote:

Admin wrote: And the thing is that energy is not very difficult to perceive, nor is it very difficult to manipulate, at least to tinker with. I have had all sort of experiences just playing with energy. Manipulating it in such a way to make cancer go into remission or shrink enlarged endocrine glands takes a bit more skill and expertise, though.

it does. "practice makes perfect" and to practice one must understand where to start, the basic instruction. that came from the intuitive sense awakened during my nde, that is one of the key reasons anthropologists have discovered most indiginous shamans become so as the result of a nde.

I agree. The guy who developed the healing method I had done was also a near death experiencer. Did "Jesus" have any healing ability awakened from his NDE or was that just Christian hype?

Admin wrote:

wayne wrote:

Admin wrote: And the thing is that energy is not very difficult to perceive, nor is it very difficult to manipulate, at least to tinker with. I have had all sort of experiences just playing with energy. Manipulating it in such a way to make cancer go into remission or shrink enlarged endocrine glands takes a bit more skill and expertise, though.

it does. "practice makes perfect" and to practice one must understand where to start, the basic instruction. that came from the intuitive sense awakened during my nde, that is one of the key reasons anthropologists have discovered most indiginous shamans become so as the result of a nde.

I agree. The guy who developed the healing method I had done was also a near death experiencer. Did "Jesus" have any healing ability awakened from his NDE or was that just Christian hype?

Pretty much Christian hype. He did what amounts to energy work with people in the same way Shamans and gifted energy workers do and perhaps some of his results seemed like miracles in the day but nothing like what the Christian writers cooked up.

An interesting interview with a clairvoyant. Similar to what I had done but not exactly the same. A pretty good overview of how they work.